6.3

Transmission Oil Filter

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abl567

4/19/2007 11:53 PM

This weekends job is to change the tranny oil and filter. I have the filter kit and gasket from the MB.
Any traps for young players here?

6.3 #2723, my first classic Benz

Mike Freed

4/20/2007 12:29 AM

Do not over tighten the pan bolts. My car came to me with one already stripped out. I had to drill it out, tap it for a larger size. No problem, but a hassle. They do not need to have a lot of torque applied.

Be sure to drain the converter, too. It has a bunch of old, trapped fluid in it. Get a buddy to turn the engine over by hand while you look for the converter plug under the car.

AND PLEASE, PLEASE, DO NOT GET UNDER THAT CAR UNLESS YOU HAVE EVERY BIT OF IT JACKED UP AND SECURELY HELD IN PLACE. I HAVE FOUR TON JACKSTANDS AND I STILL KEEP WOODEN FOUR BY FOURS UNDER THERE, TOO, JUST IN CASE. I AM REALLY SCARED OF 4,000 POUNDS FALLING ON ME DUE TO A QUICK AIR DISCHARGE.

Another point: when you get everything in place and are ready to add fluid, add four or five quarts, crank up the engine and move the transmission lever to each gear. Have your foot on the brake. This will get the fluid away from the filler neck so you can add more fluid and not spill it all over the place.

Mike

Michael Edwin Freed

abl567

4/20/2007 1:05 AM

Thanks Mike,
I use a set of car ramps for most front underside work, with a pair of jack stands under the lower control arms as a back up.
I'll be sure to take care with the pan bolts

6.3 #2723, my first classic Benz

karra

4/9/2009 12:13 PM

I asked my dealer if they can supply me the transmission filter kit. Nope [:0] .

We have another supplier that orders original parts from MB Germany and today I received the filter kit plus some other parts by post. I was just wondering if anyone knows the correct part number; just in case that after draining the fluid & removing the pan I notice that I got the wrong part...

I have now a A 113 270 00 98 in an original MB-package (should include the pan gasket also).

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Ron B

4/9/2009 6:15 PM

For any mrcedesbulit before 1974 there are only two types,the square filter or the round filter. 6.3's use the round filter. It's the same as the finny's use.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

karra

4/10/2009 1:12 PM

OK, I got the round one. And it looks the same I have on my coupé.

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

karra

4/13/2009 3:08 PM

I am on the half way now; the day ended too soon [:)] . No major dirt in the oil pan; just some... and only one metal flake came our with the oil. But, the old gasket [:(!] , somebody had used extra sealant on it. This material was present in the oil pan and one lump had been sucked into the filter mesh - see picture.

Here is the "H-pipe" on my car.

Some off-topic; yesterday I changed the studded tires to studless M+S tires on my E420. Then when the weather heats up I will install my 235/40R18 "normal" tires for the summertime driving. Normally I don't use the studelss M+S but they came with the car when I bought it in Germany in 2007 [:D] .

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Ron B

4/13/2009 11:23 PM

Thank goodness for filters! imagine the mess if that gunk got into the valve body![:(]. With a new seal there is no need for sealer,except for a light coat of permatex #2 to hold it in place.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

bwostosh

4/14/2009 12:44 AM

Check the pan bolting flange for flatness.
The bolts tend to distort about the holes.
If someone has been into this transmission prior,
and used silicone sealant, be wary of putting on a distorted pan. (again)

Translate, it will leak if not done.

Crankcase and transmission pans are soft sheet metal draw die type parts.

Soft steel will distort with relatively little pressure.

Brian O.

wbain

4/14/2009 1:02 AM

Brian, someone put black sealant on my pan. I'm taking the trans apart, based on the thread in the 6.3 forum, and checking for little tiny bits.

Warren Bain '65 220S, '89 300SE, '89 420SEL, 2002 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor

karra

4/14/2009 1:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bwostosh

Check the pan bolting flange for flatness.
The bolts tend to distort about the holes.
If someone has been into this transmission prior,
and used silicone sealant, be wary of putting on a distorted pan. (again)

Translate, it will leak if not done.

Crankcase and transmission pans are soft sheet metal draw die type parts.

Soft steel will distort with relatively little pressure.

Brian O.

Ok, good that this was confirmed. I saw the bolt holes were higher than the flange itself, so it has been over tightened. I guess straightening is not possbile, just to grind it somehow so that it will be completely flat on the flange surface [?]

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Art Love

4/14/2009 8:50 AM

Kari,
I don't know if it is practical in your case, but the best way I know to "grind it somehow" is to use a good plane of glass and very fine grade sandpaper on the glass surface.
Art

Chris Johnson

4/14/2009 10:22 AM

These pans are made of very thick sheet metal, and, with the original style hard paper gasket, will put up with a lot of abuse. It is next to impossible to distort the pan.

However, with the current replacement cork gasket there is too much "give" in the gasket and over-tightening the bolts will make a mess of the pan. I have a press here, so it makes it easier to get done, but I press the area around the bolt holes in the flange of the pan back to a visually "flat" state. Any minor imperfections in the surface are easily compensated for by the cork gasket, but if you have the paper gasket, you have to have a perfectly flat flange on the pan.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org

6.3Nut

6/29/2020 12:52 PM

Hello Chris, is it possible for you to post the picture of the press, I would like to get one for my self. All the mechanics I discuss the cork gasket are ready to put sealant and not discuss flattening of the pan flange. The last time I had to run around looking for a press, but only found a shop that took a flat metal bar, laid it on the flange and hammered it. With the result that I am not getting a real tight seal, there are weeping points around the corners.

bwostosh

4/14/2009 12:02 PM

I'll tell my one secret machinist trick for those pans.

Find a good planar piece of concrete,
assume kneeling prayer position (with proper knee support)
over upside down pan on concrete.
Forcefully pushing down, move pan in a figure "8" (or the "infinity symbol") to grind off the high spots.
After a few (10) cycles rotate the pan 90degrees and repeat until all of the "bolting bumps" are smoothed down.
The resulting "scratched" surface will grip the gasket well.
And if you find smooth concrete, the finish will be equivalent to 120-150 grit paper.

This is similar to how precision hand lapping is accomplished in the machining world.
You are averaging the error of the lap surface.
The only difference is cast iron lap surface with diamond dust.
Or there may be better ways but this is the technique I learned.

Brian O.

karra

4/20/2009 11:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Art Love

Kari,
I don't know if it is practical in your case, but the best way I know to "grind it somehow" is to use a good plane of glass and very fine grade sandpaper on the glass surface.
Art

I did this after having gently used a ball-point hammer and a socket on the opposite side to smoothen the biggest bumps.

I bought a small piece of magnet from the local speed shop that recommend those to be used in the oil pan. It bites hard on metal so I will not use any glue whatsoever, nor I will not weld any bolts to the pan for fastening the magnet despite there is a hole on it.

Luckily I saw only one flake of metal when draining but to be honest the oil looks a bit dirty (but does not smell bad).

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Ron B

4/20/2009 6:30 PM

Small peices of metal in a DB trans oil pan are normal. Large peices are not..obviuosly.
Don't forget to drain the torque convertor /fluid coupler and undo the trans cooling pipes,blow compressed air through them and gasolene if you can to clean them out. Check the rubber hose condition in the front and replace the soft washers under the pipes on the bell housing . These will leak over time and new washers keep them dry.
When refilling ,you must only put in 1/3 of the required fluid,then start the car and let it idle whilst checking the level. Fill slowly to the required level or just under. Over filling is bad because the fluid becomes aerated and will destroy the trans bearings.
if you try to put the full amount in straight away ,it will pour out the vent on top of the trans. The excess amount is required to fill the fluid coupler.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

karra

4/21/2009 12:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ron B

Small peices of metal in a DB trans oil pan are normal. Large peices are not..obviuosly.
Don't forget to drain the torque convertor /fluid coupler and undo the trans cooling pipes,blow compressed air through them and gasolene if you can to clean them out. Check the rubber hose condition in the front and replace the soft washers under the pipes on the bell housing . These will leak over time and new washers keep them dry.

Thanks Ron to remind me of the cooler hoses [:)] . I managed only yesterday open the torque converter drain plug (I needed a good quality socket). It looks that I have most of the oil out now. Could you be more specific what you mean with the rubber washers, thanks.

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Ron B

4/21/2009 7:29 AM

Rubber hoses between the cooler and the engine, and the washers are either copper or Aluminium ,not rubber.[:)] they shoud only be used once because they are soft so the pipes seal properly.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

6.3Nut

3/30/2017 4:12 PM

I am planning to drain and put a new seal in the next few day. This will be my first time so wanted to know:
a) If there is a specific torque I need to use when using the cork seal?
b) Do I apply Permatex #2 on both side of the seal or just the pan side?

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931

karra

3/31/2017 1:43 AM

I would apply sealant only on the oil pan side, in case it has to be removed without a new seal at hand. The correct torque for the pan bolts for the K-transmission is 0.8 kgm i.e. 8 Nm. I recommend to tighten with a small 1/4 wrench with your "wrist feeling" and if it starts to "sweat" then just a bit more; you need to be very gentle in order not to crush the cork gasket.

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 300 SEL 6.3 #5581
1980 450 SEL 6.9 #7201
1987 560 SEC
1992 500 E
2000 G500

http://suomi.mercedes-benz-clubs.com/

mpmorris

3/31/2017 1:47 PM

My approach to installing the new cork 'gasket', is to apply permatex on the pan side as karra recommends and then a thin layer of grease on the trans case side of the cork --not too much (you don't want the grease (or permatex) mixing with the trans fluid); the grease has two functions -prevents the gasket from drying out and gives the gasket some flexibility when applying torque to the pan bolts (dry, I have found the cork gasket splits)
mpm

olliw109

3/31/2017 4:29 PM

Hello,
not more than 10Nm!! Keeps the alu pan in form.....
Check before installing if the pan is straight, otherwise the gasket will not seal properly. I would not use grease, sealant etc.

300 SEL 6.3 3478+5327
Oliver

6.3Nut

5/30/2017 11:00 PM

Well the person who owned the car before me did not put the correct filter. The one installed does not have the rubber seal, so changing the sump gasket did prove beneficial. Luckily I had ordered the complete kit so now I can install the correct filter. I just hope no damage has been done. [:D]

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931

mpmorris

5/31/2017 11:04 AM

Some of the replacement filters came without that rubber half moon seal and had to be exchanged from the old filter.

6.3Nut

5/31/2017 10:26 PM

Guys a question - I was thinking of putting 4mm or so thick stiff metal strips on the flange section around the sump and then tighten the bolts through them. This would spread the Force evenly around the flange thus giving a better seal also less chance to damage the flange. What say you?

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931

Aaron H

6/1/2017 12:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by olliw109

Hello,
not more than 10Nm!! Keeps the alu pan in form.....
Check before installing if the pan is straight, otherwise the gasket will not seal properly. I would not use grease, sealant etc.

300 SEL 6.3 3478+5327
Oliver

OlliW109, the pan on the transmission isn't aluminum. It's stamped steel.

rumb

6/2/2017 9:46 AM

From 1977 Maintenance manual
cork gasket 8Nm
rubber gasket 7Nm

rumb
68 250S, 77 450SEL 6.9, 91 300SE, 98 SL500, 14 CLS550

6.3Nut

9/1/2017 10:46 PM

Ok I am in a fix. All the bolts are holding a good seal except one. I have already torqued all the bolts to 10Nm. Any suggestions as to the cause of a bad seal.

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931

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