6.3

Hello Chris, is it possible for you to post the picture of the press, I would like to get one for my self.  All the mechanics I discuss the cork gasket are ready to put sealant and not discuss flattening of the pan flange.  The last time I had to run around looking for a press, but only found a shop that took a flat metal bar, laid it on the flange and hammered it.  With the result that I am not getting a real tight seal, there are weeping points around the corners.

Ok I am in a fix. All the bolts are holding a good seal except one. I have already torqued all the bolts to 10Nm. Any suggestions as to the cause of a bad seal.

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931

From 1977 Maintenance manual
cork gasket 8Nm
rubber gasket 7Nm

rumb
68 250S, 77 450SEL 6.9, 91 300SE, 98 SL500, 14 CLS550

quote:

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Originally posted by olliw109

Hello,
not more than 10Nm!! Keeps the alu pan in form.....
Check before installing if the pan is straight, otherwise the gasket will not seal properly. I would not use grease, sealant etc.

300 SEL 6.3 3478+5327
Oliver

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OlliW109, the pan on the transmission isn't aluminum. It's stamped steel.

Guys a question - I was thinking of putting 4mm or so thick stiff metal strips on the flange section around the sump and then tighten the bolts through them. This would spread the Force evenly around the flange thus giving a better seal also less chance to damage the flange. What say you?

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931

Some of the replacement filters came without that rubber half moon seal and had to be exchanged from the old filter.

Well the person who owned the car before me did not put the correct filter. The one installed does not have the rubber seal, so changing the sump gasket did prove beneficial. Luckily I had ordered the complete kit so now I can install the correct filter. I just hope no damage has been done. [:D]

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931

Hello,
not more than 10Nm!! Keeps the alu pan in form.....
Check before installing if the pan is straight, otherwise the gasket will not seal properly. I would not use grease, sealant etc.

300 SEL 6.3 3478+5327
Oliver

My approach to installing the new cork 'gasket', is to apply permatex on the pan side as karra recommends and then a thin layer of grease on the trans case side of the cork --not too much (you don't want the grease (or permatex) mixing with the trans fluid); the grease has two functions -prevents the gasket from drying out and gives the gasket some flexibility when applying torque to the pan bolts (dry, I have found the cork gasket splits)
mpm

I would apply sealant only on the oil pan side, in case it has to be removed without a new seal at hand. The correct torque for the pan bolts for the K-transmission is 0.8 kgm i.e. 8 Nm. I recommend to tighten with a small 1/4 wrench with your "wrist feeling" and if it starts to "sweat" then just a bit more; you need to be very gentle in order not to crush the cork gasket.

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 300 SEL 6.3 #5581
1980 450 SEL 6.9 #7201
1987 560 SEC
1992 500 E
2000 G500

http://suomi.mercedes-benz-clubs.com/

I am planning to drain and put a new seal in the next few day. This will be my first time so wanted to know:
a) If there is a specific torque I need to use when using the cork seal?
b) Do I apply Permatex #2 on both side of the seal or just the pan side?

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931

Rubber hoses between the cooler and the engine, and the washers are either copper or Aluminium ,not rubber.[:)] they shoud only be used once because they are soft so the pipes seal properly.

quote:

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12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ron B

Small peices of metal in a DB trans oil pan are normal. Large peices are not..obviuosly.
Don't forget to drain the torque convertor /fluid coupler and undo the trans cooling pipes,blow compressed air through them and gasolene if you can to clean them out. Check the rubber hose condition in the front and replace the soft washers under the pipes on the bell housing . These will leak over time and new washers keep them dry.

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Thanks Ron to remind me of the cooler hoses [:)] . I managed only yesterday open the torque converter drain plug (I needed a good quality socket). It looks that I have most of the oil out now. Could you be more specific what you mean with the rubber washers, thanks.

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Small peices of metal in a DB trans oil pan are normal. Large peices are not..obviuosly.
Don't forget to drain the torque convertor /fluid coupler and undo the trans cooling pipes,blow compressed air through them and gasolene if you can to clean them out. Check the rubber hose condition in the front and replace the soft washers under the pipes on the bell housing . These will leak over time and new washers keep them dry.
When refilling ,you must only put in 1/3 of the required fluid,then start the car and let it idle whilst checking the level. Fill slowly to the required level or just under. Over filling is bad because the fluid becomes aerated and will destroy the trans bearings.
if you try to put the full amount in straight away ,it will pour out the vent on top of the trans. The excess amount is required to fill the fluid coupler.

quote:

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12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

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quote:

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Originally posted by Art Love

Kari,
I don't know if it is practical in your case, but the best way I know to "grind it somehow" is to use a good plane of glass and very fine grade sandpaper on the glass surface.
Art

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I did this after having gently used a ball-point hammer and a socket on the opposite side to smoothen the biggest bumps.

I bought a small piece of magnet from the local speed shop that recommend those to be used in the oil pan. It bites hard on metal so I will not use any glue whatsoever, nor I will not weld any bolts to the pan for fastening the magnet despite there is a hole on it.

Luckily I saw only one flake of metal when draining but to be honest the oil looks a bit dirty (but does not smell bad).



Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

I'll tell my one secret machinist trick for those pans.

Find a good planar piece of concrete,
assume kneeling prayer position (with proper knee support)
over upside down pan on concrete.
Forcefully pushing down, move pan in a figure "8" (or the "infinity symbol") to grind off the high spots.
After a few (10) cycles rotate the pan 90degrees and repeat until all of the "bolting bumps" are smoothed down.
The resulting "scratched" surface will grip the gasket well.
And if you find smooth concrete, the finish will be equivalent to 120-150 grit paper.

This is similar to how precision hand lapping is accomplished in the machining world.
You are averaging the error of the lap surface.
The only difference is cast iron lap surface with diamond dust.
Or there may be better ways but this is the technique I learned.

Brian O.

These pans are made of very thick sheet metal, and, with the original style hard paper gasket, will put up with a lot of abuse. It is next to impossible to distort the pan.

However, with the current replacement cork gasket there is too much "give" in the gasket and over-tightening the bolts will make a mess of the pan. I have a press here, so it makes it easier to get done, but I press the area around the bolt holes in the flange of the pan back to a visually "flat" state. Any minor imperfections in the surface are easily compensated for by the cork gasket, but if you have the paper gasket, you have to have a perfectly flat flange on the pan.



Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org

Kari,
I don't know if it is practical in your case, but the best way I know to "grind it somehow" is to use a good plane of glass and very fine grade sandpaper on the glass surface.
Art

quote:

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Originally posted by bwostosh

Check the pan bolting flange for flatness.
The bolts tend to distort about the holes.
If someone has been into this transmission prior,
and used silicone sealant, be wary of putting on a distorted pan. (again)

Translate, it will leak if not done.

Crankcase and transmission pans are soft sheet metal draw die type parts.

Soft steel will distort with relatively little pressure.

Brian O.

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Ok, good that this was confirmed. I saw the bolt holes were higher than the flange itself, so it has been over tightened. I guess straightening is not possbile, just to grind it somehow so that it will be completely flat on the flange surface [?]

Kari Pykäläinen

1971 6.3 #5581
1968 280 SE Coupé
1993 E420
1995 Tahoe 350cid

Brian, someone put black sealant on my pan. I'm taking the trans apart, based on the thread in the 6.3 forum, and checking for little tiny bits.

Warren Bain '65 220S, '89 300SE, '89 420SEL, 2002 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor