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6.3

engine timing / camshaft timing
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I would say no. This cannot happen. But you could remove the valve covers, rotate the engine to TDC and see if the markings on the cam shafts lines up.

Are you missing spark on plugs one one side? Clean plugs? Is the rotor on its mark when motor is on TDC?



Stian

70 300SEL 6,3

82 280SL


My 6.3 recently just out of the blue started missing, it looks as though half of the engine is firing. I had parked it after a short run and everything was OK, next morning I get missing.


I initially thoughts the points were the reason, being that they had ware on them and some pitting. So I went with putting the electronic ignition but no luck. The car does start on first self but missing is there and is consistent. With me living in the back and beyond there is no option but one shop which i hate. So grudgingly i went to the shop and found new management who refuse to work on Benz older than 2000. Anyway he asked about the issue and when i told him the symptoms he said your car might have "slipped timing" as chain might have slipped a groove.


Can anyone tell me if this could happen and if so, how to go about fixing it? The chain on my car is old so I will be replacing it when I try to bring my car back from the future 😉

It has been observed by the Queensland police ..[:o)] I am doing a car for a copper at the moment who told me this and the Workshop is on the Gold coast where they specialize in exhausts for the Ricer crowd ,mostly WRX's. The car was restored with some modifications to the interior for someone in Asia who has a lot of cars and the wherewithal to afford them.
It sat for many years before a dealer on the coast bought it and it was then sold to the guy in the Drivers seat,as far as I understand it.

When he eventually blows the diff or trans I hope he asks a member for the parts,I am sure we can all accommodate him.


quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
Tom,
Ron may know. He has a lot more contacts around the place than I do. I think we worked out that the Utube garage was on the north coast rather than the south coast as I had originally presumed, but either way, it is somewhere around here as Ron mentioned in his recent posting. Burpengary is on the way to the north coast. I haven't seen the car myself.
Art
Art,

Does anyone know who those idiots are in the youtube video of the black on red 6.3??? Too bad cause it looks like it might be a nice car. When you consider all the time, effort, and money that many of us spend trying to get our cars to run and look nice and you see some morons like these guys trying to tear up what appears to be a nice car!!!

Tom
Gunter,

Today, my Email with picture was rebounced ....
I saw that very car last month when I was coming back to Brisbane after getting another ponton up at Burpengary ( yes that is a real place name [:)] ). I was parked at the lights and it came flying past in the Right lane with driving lights blazing in daylight...The number plate now reads "STATUS" , although the you tube driving demo would indicate MSTRB8R would be a better choice. [:D][:D]


quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
Well Ron, a fool is born every minute. [:D] I love #1452 too much to treat the lady like that!

Gunter

w109 6.3 #1452 '69
s124 300 TDT '90
Skoda Superb '09
Hi Gunter,
I'm sure Ron will respond, but I can't resist the oportunity to do so also. As a non-mechanic, I think it is sensible to not fix things that aren't broken. If the car drives well, drive and enjoy it. If the timing was c##p, the driving would be c##p. Mucking around with it is as likely as not to produce more trouble than it is worth. Any moron can do what those dickheads in that video did[:o)]. Shame about the car[:(].
Art
Hi ron, thanks for the very elaborate explanation.

I will remove both valve-cover and check the alignment of the marks.

On the other hand; #1452 does seem to drive ok. Last weekend, I gave the beans (a bit) and pick-up is quite instant. It did slip the rear wheels (a bit) although not like this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8FiI_YUZsQ

Because I do not have a reference, is there a way to reasonably assume that timing is ok, judging by driving characteristics?

Gunter

w109 6.3 #1452 '69
s124 300 TDT '90
Skoda Superb '09
Hi,Yes very simple operation. Remove both cam covers, then while watching number 1 cylinder cam,rotate the engine until the lines ,as in Paul's picture line up with the notch in the washer. Check the other side(left ) is close ,then look at the crank shaft damper. the timing mark should close as possible to Zero -0- but often it will nearer to 5. if it is past 5 and nearer to 10 ,then the chain is worn and needs replacing.

A tip I learnt a while ago is to replace the chain then using the offset keys, Advance the cams 2 degrees to give more low end power .
To learn the basics of Cam 'degreeing' you need to know a few steps first.
[i] How to check that the marks on the timing damper are correct (mercedes are almost always correct)
[ii] how to set up up the dial test indicator
[iii] understand what the cam is doing when the dial test indicator begins to open the valve and why that is so important to get an engine running as it was designed.
On our M-100 engines we check on the actual lobe.
This involves checking on the clearance ramps of the cam lobe. The clearance ramps are the slow lifting portions of the lobe which provide a smooth, transition between the base circle and the cam flank on both the opening and closing sides of the lobe.
On the clearance ramps, the first .010" or .015" of rocker arm movement is usually at the slow rate of .0005' per cam degree. In addition to gradually taking up the valve lash (necessary because of valve expansion and small deflections of the valve gear components), the clearance ramp provides the initial, gentle acceleration of the valve off its seat.

Only the end of the clearance ramp directly adjacent to the cam flank is actually used to open and seat the valve, while the remainder is used to take up the clearance and compensate for small deflections or runout in the valve gear. Since the clearance ramp rate of lift (velocity) is .0005" per cam degree, a slight error on your part of say .001" in checking the valve seat timing at a certain point on these clearance ramps, could account for 2 cam degrees (4 crank degrees) of error in determining the timing point . And it is very easy to accumulate .001" error if the dial indicator's stem is not running parallel to the lifter (cosine error) or if you view the dial indicator's calibrations from an angle (parallax error) or if the cam bearings are worn slightly.
This why it can pay to remove the rocker arms to remove influences on the cam movement.

Obviously then to properly determine the position of your camshaft in the engine, the cam timing must be checked at a Rocker arm height off the base circle where the velocity (rate of cam rise) is high enough so that small checking height errors of .001" or so will not result in gross timing damper reading error.


Many years ago a standard height was sought after by ISKENDERIAN racing cam engineers where all racing camshafts could be timed to give accurate results and in 1958 it was decided and later published in their top tuner's manual, "Valve Timing for Maximum Output" that .050" lifter rise off the base circle would be the accepted standard for their camshafts. This figure was ideal because it was Not far enough off the base circle to confuse the engine builder when timing the camshaft, and it was high enough to show effective valve timing (a point where the valve is far enough open to pass an effective air flow). Also, the velocity (rate of cam lift) of most camshafts is approximately .004" per cam degree at .050 ' lifter rise. Therefore, a .002" error in checking height would only affect the Crank Damper reading about 1 crank degree as shown in this picture. The ISKENDERIAN .050" lifter rise check was actually how Daimler engineers specified the correct method of checking cam timng ,who came first,the chicken or the egg ?


to begin your check of the camshafts, rotate the crankshaft until the No. 1 cylinder intake rocker arm is on the base circle (heel) of the cam lobe.
Position the dial indicator stem parallel to the lifter in both planes, and preload the indicator's stem .050" - .100" on the Lobe.
Rotate the crankshaft clockwise several times to determine the runout or eccentricity of the base circle. This should not exceed. 001 and should be centered equally on both sides of the zero on the dial indicator.
(you doing this to see if the lobe is worn and the cam is turning straight in the head)

Rotate the crankshaft clockwise until .050" dial indicator movement is detected and read the mark opposite the stationary pointer. It should read intake opening before T.D.C. (depends on which cam s your m100 has,the timing specs are different between the different market engines) .
Record your reading and continue rotating the crankshaft watching the lifter reach full lift and begin to descend and stop the crankshaft's movement at .050" dial indicator reading before zero.
The reading opposite the stationary pointer should be intake closing at after Bottom dead Center.
Record your reading and repeat your check of the opening and closing points of the intake cam to insure against human error in reading the indicator or crank damper .

If the cam is opening or closing at a different position compared with the factory specs and your chain is NEW, then you can fit keys which will move the position of the Cam wheel on the cam shaft to make the cam open and close Early or late.
As I pointed out before,you can alter the opening to make more power down low (normal driving) by advancing the cam (opening earlier) or more power at the top by retarding the cam (high speed driving) .



quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
thanx paul and brian for your anwers.

I'm not looking to adjust, but just to check wether camshaft timing is within limits.

thanx again

Gunter

w109 6.3 #1452 '69
s124 300 TDT '90
Skoda Superb '09
No reply?
This requires removing chain tensioner, valve covers, radiator, sparkplugs, get big socket with long handle on crank pulley, rotate crank to align true TDC and estimate gear lag on cam marks, insert offset keys, rotate again and again to test, re-install tensioner, and do it again and again. always rotate in direction of motor operation

Adjust the valves and do a electrical tune-up while in there.

This is a tedious operation, not impossible.

Brian O.
The problem with linked pics is that the disappear when the original picture is deleted.
So if not uploaded then the risq is there the original pic will be gone after some time.

But I could advise you to read your garagemanual chapter 00-9 + 05-7.
I will try to send you a picture from the cam.
Can't find back your Emailadress ....



No pics then? Anyone?

Gunter

w109 6.3 #1452 '69
s124 300 TDT '90
Skoda Superb '09
Hi all,

I've been following the new thread about the awakening of the 300Se.

What caught my eye was the checking of engine-timing / camshaft timing. I've read the procedure, but the english technical jargon is difficult for me to translate in the actual "manual" procedure.

Does anyone have pictures I can use for reference on how to perform this task on a m100?

Thanx!

Gunter

w109 6.3 #1452 '69
s124 300 TDT '90
Skoda Superb '09
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