Originality Police

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aaron H

At the moment, none of the oldtimer leather appears to be shown on their website. The only reason I came to know about it is because I received and updated product/price list in the mail, and this "oldtimer" leather was advertised in this article of mail.

---

If you contact them (GAHH), they will send you a sample. I'm going with old-timer in mine and am quite happy with the sample they sent. It's MUCH thicker and has a nice grain to it. It's the closest to original as I have been able to find.

1966 230SL
1969 300SEL #1703
1985 300TD
1990 350SDL
2002 SL500
2008 GL320 CDI
2009 GL320 BT - SOLD

I am a big fan of Leatherique products. Expensive, but worth every penny.

http://www.leatherique.com/

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aaron H

AG Silver, I'm horribly concerned about your use of a petroleum distillate based product on surface dyed leather from a Roser Tannery. In general, using anything with petroleum distillates on surfaced dyed leather, or any leather, is a horrible thing to do. Over time, the petroleum distillates will break down the binding fibers of the skin, and the leather will literally fall apart and/or turn into mush. One must remember that leather is skin; it's an organic substance.

What happens when an area of the human body is constantly exposed to a petroleum product? The first thing that happens is that the petroleum product is absorbed into the skin. After being exposed long enough, the area becomes inflamed. All the while, the inorganic petroleum product interrupts the life cycle of skin cells. The result of this is an overabundance of free radicals. Much more than our bodies can handle. At this point, the homeostasis of the human body is interrupted, and cancer prevails.

Now, I realize that a tanned cow hide is no longer a living organism, and that a Bovine hide or German Bull hide is of a different make up than human skin, but most mammals share distinctive features, both physically and dermatologically. However, introducing something like a petroleum product can and will expedite the aging process of a postmortem hide.

In essence, a postmortem hide can still be damaged, even after it has been tanned and preserved. Stick with the Lexol or Leartherique. You're leather will last much longer. :)

---

Clearly, your knowledge of leather care is far greater than mine and I really appreciate your concern and that you took the time to comment extensively.

I do, however, need to correct what I said about "petroleum distillates." After re-reading the product's label, it actually refers to "petroleum products." Additionally, I note that "Connolly Hide Food/Care" also contains petroleum products. I can only say that these 20+ year old hides to date show no signs of deterioration whatsoever.

300SEL 6.3
E55 AMG
CLK63 AMG Gone
Ferrari 400GTC4
ML400CDI BiTurbo
ML350 CDI BT
9146GT

AG Silver, I'm horribly concerned about your use of a petroleum distillate based product on surface dyed leather from a Roser Tannery. In general, using anything with petroleum distillates on surfaced dyed leather, or any leather, is a horrible thing to do. Over time, the petroleum distillates will break down the binding fibers of the skin, and the leather will literally fall apart and/or turn into mush. One must remember that leather is skin; it's an organic substance.

What happens when an area of the human body is constantly exposed to a petroleum product? The first thing that happens is that the petroleum product is absorbed into the skin. After being exposed long enough, the area becomes inflamed. All the while, the inorganic petroleum product interrupts the life cycle of skin cells. The result of this is an overabundance of free radicals. Much more than our bodies can handle. At this point, the homeostasis of the human body is interrupted, and cancer prevails.

Now, I realize that a tanned cow hide is no longer a living organism, and that a Bovine hide or German Bull hide is of a different make up than human skin, but most mammals share distinctive features, both physically and dermatologically. However, introducing something like a petroleum product can and will expedite the aging process of a postmortem hide.

In essence, a postmortem hide can still be damaged, even after it has been tanned and preserved. Stick with the Lexol or Leartherique. You're leather will last much longer. :)

Around 1979 I purchased a complete set of hides from Mercedes which I kept in storage until I resurrected my 109 project in 2005. The amazing fragrance of the interior cannot be replicated with today's new production leather. I continuously apply Lexol and a product called Black Magic which contains petroleum distillates. As you can see, so far, so good.




300SEL 6.3
E55 AMG
CLK63 AMG Gone
Ferrari 400GTC4
ML400CDI BiTurbo
ML350 CDI BT
9146GT

I have yet to see a decent Cognac replacement leather.

1972 Mercedes 600 #2137
2011 Porsche Cayenne Turbo
2014 Mercedes CLA250
2015 VW Golf R
2015 Mercedes S550 4Matic

Yes, Aaron, did you ever receive your samples from GAHH? and if so, how did they compare to the real thing?

Chris

Aaron --any update on your leather process?

At the moment, none of the oldtimer leather appears to be shown on their website. The only reason I came to know about it is because I received and updated product/price list in the mail, and this "oldtimer" leather was advertised in this article of mail.

Aaron, is this old timer leather shown on the GAHH website?

Chris

Looking forward to your findings.

---

116.036 - trusty rusty
116.036 - Rooikat
116.024 - the merc
116.028 - Penelope
116.032 - Esmeralda
126.037 - Scheckter
126.037
107.046

---

---

I recently learned that GAHH is now offering what they call "oldtimer Leather". It's geared towards any car that used Roser leather from the 1950's through the 1970's. I've ordered a sample of every color they have at this point. As soon as I get them, I'll post them on here comparing them with original leather and Aeristo leather. One of the colors they offer is Cognac......this should be interesting....

I wanted to retain my original seat covers and visited several Auto Upholstery shops who all replied, can't be repaired....you need new covers. Finally a company called Leather Medic came out to my garage and repaired the seat. I believe they may be a franchise. Did a great job for around $250, which included repair of tears (with material under as fill in), cracks, and refinishing. If you look around, you may find someone who will repair the seat to your satisfaction.

























'70 300 SEL #3366
'80 240D
'87 560SL
'91 560 SEC
'93 190E 2.6
'91 300 SE

Has anyone had any luck grafting material from old upholstery to repair damaged areas?
Jim

jim

Hi Richard. The short answer to your question is no. In essence, they're probably using the same leather all of the other companies buy. In their description, they say it looks like the original. They're not exactly fibbing, as I am sure they do look like the original, but only regarding the pattern, pleating, embossing, etc. It's the color, sheen, (or lack thereof in the case of modern leather), and grain that is not correct. Unless they're using leather from Aeristo, the product won't be what you're expecting.

If you choose to go this route and buy modern leather, the only way to make it work is to recover not only the seats, but all of the door panels and door pockets, as well, so it'll all match. The difference between the original leather and modern leather that other companies sell is night in day in my eyes. It's not even close.

Given the fact that they say "All seat coverings are special order", I'd be willing to bet that they're ordering the seat cover kits from places that everyone else orders from and putting a mark up on the price.

Does anyone know if Adsitco's product looks like the original leather? They claim it does:
Product Description

This seat upholstery is manufactured using the original equipment German Leather to the original pattern for the correct original look. If you have any questions about the color of your interior please supply us with your vin#. All seat covers are special order for your car so please order carefully.

http://www.smsautofabrics.com/
Anyone tried these guys for hard to get vinyl? I had read recently of a group in the UK who have resurrected a vinyl making machine, not for the faint hearted,these things are 30 meters long. [:D]

quote:

---

12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

---

Aaron,

I've used VHT vinyl dye on faded red arm rest on my w108 about 10 years ago, and it has lasted incredibly well with no fading or visible wear.
Unfortunately the colour range does not include yours, but there must be another brand available to try.

regards
Michael D

Aaron,

Just to clarify some comments in your post above on 03/15/2015. The Classic Center is NOT an Authorized MB Dealership. Not at all. We don't sell new cars here. We are a restoration center and parts supplier, owned and operated by MBUSA. We do occasionally sell classic Mercedes-Benz automobiles, but only three or four per year.

Tom Hanson
Supervisor, Parts Ops
MB Classic Center USA
949 598-4842 direct
thomas.hanson@mbusa.com
ex - 1970 6.3 #4045

Paul, if I don't find the correct coloured other bits, I'll have no other choice than to dye the black pieces. :/ I just don't like doing that on pieces that get a lot of touching, etc. It's bound to scratch off at some point. I'm so mad at myself.....5-6 years ago I gave a long wheelbase W108 4.5 car to Drew Tibcken because he wanted the rear axle out of it. It had dark red interior. The body was rusty, and the engine needed a lot of work. It was a parts car. I should have kept that interior. Lately, everything I find is either blue or tan. :/

Jack, I think you may run into a problem trying to fit vinyl to the door caps. The vinyl we can buy today is as thick as leather, if not thicker. The problem here is that we can't skive, or shave down, vinyl. The problem complicates itself when it's a W109 car. The later ones have the anodized aluminum trim piece on the door cap, as well. It won't fit over it's lip on the door cap if the material isn't skived.

Regarding the door panels themselves, the original leather wasn't skived on the door panels, so you should be ok there. What I've fond is that the original door cards were saved at the very top for clearance issues between the door card and the door cap. Down at the bottom where the puffy bolster is may be a problem, too. Skived leather, as well as leather that one buys either from Mercedes or Aeristo, is easier to work with than vinyl, especially around these complex curves and bends.

Another area vinyl won't work on is the door pockets. The edges of the door pocket leather are so thin that you can almost see through the leather on the edges. The plastic chrome piping on the door pockets is sewn to the larger piece of leather with a narrower piece sewn into the seam to cover the top lip of the door pocket. So you'll have the thickness of two pieces of vinyl and the piping at that seam. If we tried that seam with vinyl, it would bulge out horribly.

Is there not a place in Europe that still sells the original style vinyl that is very thin? Surely someone in this world has this, or at least has the ability to make it.