Tires, Brakes and Suspension

...Gentlemen,

update on that Topic.
To replace the brake hoses was one of the best ideas in the last few years. Now the Brakes are much more cooler.
THANK YOU

Hendrik

....what Paul-NL wrote regarding the Booster is what I expected.
Thank You

Art , Paul-NL,
thanks for your replies.
I mixed up two topics. Sorry for any inconvenience caused. The change of brake hoses is still on the agenda. I scheduled it for end of july/ beginning of august. I`ll let you know the results.


I fould the topic of changing the Booster let`s say, interesting.

I notice several have mentioned brake lines but nobody has specified why this is being so strongly recommended.

As flexible brake lines age many of us have experienced collapsed inner linings which cause the brakes to 'drag' slightly even when the pedal is fully released. This is a very common cause of excessive heat.

I am also curious as to how you've determined that the brakes are becoming excessively hot? The operating temperature for disc brakes is extremely high, and the thermal mass of the discs + the wheels mean that heat dissipates pretty slowly.

Here is a thread on a similar subject to give you some perspective: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=346341

As you'll see in the discussion, a brake that is actually dragging and overheating is very noticeable. As the guy says, 'You can feel it from three feet away.'

To summarize, I'm in full agreement that on a car of this age, any suspicion of brake dragging should result in an immediate review of the age of your flexible lines.

John Hubertz
1977 450SEL (Max Headroom) 2005-2009

When I remember right, then a vaccuumbooster supports a boosting of ca 7 or 8 times.
The aircompressorbooster of the 600 has a powersupport of ca 13 times (the pedalforce) ...

It makes no sence to switch, because the 600 has a "speciality", that supports the brakebooster above the airsuspension. The airtank of the 6.3 is missing that "priority"-chamber and -regulator for the brakebooster from the 600.

That (later modell) naked 600 booster is as far as I know still available, but cost over 4000 Euros ......

BUT, as Art already wrote : THAT has NOTHING to do with heating up of brakes during driving ....., which is commonly a fact of no release of the brakepads ; mostly clogged hoses or rusted calipers

The 600 has compressed air brakes, like a truck. Ages ago, over 20 years ago, the price of a 600 brake booster was very expensive! I do not know the current price or availability of this part. It bears no resemblance to the vacuum booster on the 6.3.

My understanding of your problem is that the brakes are overheating. I cannot see what that has to do with the brake booster. If the booster is working correctly, the time of application of the brakes during normal driving, regardless of speed, would be the same regardless of what type of booster you use.

If the booster is not working correctly, then brake application will be heavy, hard and inefficient, perhaps resulting in unnecessarily long applications of the pedal and inefficient braking- perhaps a cause of overheating???. The solution to that is to replace the booster with a new one (my understanding is that the 6.3 booster cannot be rebuilt because there is no availability of parts). The most logical explanation for the brakes overheating is what others here have told you - the brake hoses are had it, preventing the callipers from returning to the off position promptly when the pedal is released. They stay applied and there are plenty of stories of brake fires in cars driven with shot brake hoses.

My advice remains the same. Replace the 4 brake hoses with new ones if you have no idea of how old they are. That will cost a pittance compared to mucking around with 600 parts. If the problem persists after that, get back to us.
Art

Today I talked with the owner of 6.3 with FIN 0110.

He tuned the Brakes by assembling the brake booster from the "Grand Mercedes" 600.
If I understoof correctly, that is the ATE T54 instaed of T52 in the 6.3.
Now he is satisfied with the Performance of the Brakes.

hhhmmm.....good idea?

Hallo Hendrik, schoen wieder einmal von Dir zu hoeren.

You may also think about replacing the flexible brake lines by the stiffer feeling producing stahlflex lines. In case you havent replaced the flexible lines at all this would be the first action I would undertake! Inner state of the lines is often a subject which cannot be determined from outside. cu[8D]

300 SEL 6.3 3478+5327
Oliver

I doubt that the wheels are the issue. My car has the earlier wheel, and my parents drove it more than once at 115 mp/h (about 185 km/h) and brakes were never an issue.

Stanford

1969 6.3 #137
1955 Chrysler Windsor

I would put 4 new brake hoses on before I changed the wheels. I must say that I did not realize that the steel wheels changed that late in the production series until I looked it up. Have you access to a set of the later "vented" wheels? I do not believe that the alloy wheels would make much difference to the specific problem that you are describing. AMG only produced a few race cars with totally different wheels and presumably completely different brakes. They did not run any cars with factory wheels to my knowledge. The factory did, but I don't know what, if anything, they did with the brakes. They had enough trouble with tyres to withdraw the cars from Le Mans.

Welcome to the forum.
Art

Is there any info available when the breakhoses were changed for the last time ??
=> unfortunately not

Are all your 4 brakes coming free completly and the wheels turning without friction(s) ??
=> yes - no issues

Are the wheels getting "equal" warm ??
=> yes - brakes on front axle more than brakes on rear axle

What do you call "warm" (in degrees) ??
=> no idea in degrees, but: you can not touch the hubcap without backing down - sorry for that incomplete answer.


1970 6.3
2012 C220CDI
1997 BMW320i

Is there any info available when the breakhoses were changed for the last time ??
Are all your 4 brakes coming free completly and the wheels turning without friction(s) ??
Are the wheels getting "equal" warm ?? What do you call "warm" (in degrees) ??

Gentlemen,
I`m facing the issue that the brakes are becoming very, very warm after driving german Autobahn (Speed is app 160 km/h). 3919 is from February 1970 and has the older wheels without holes for better cooling.
I had the idea to change the wheels to the newer version (item-# 108 400 08 02).
Does it makes sence? Or will it be better to change to alloy wheels? What are your experiences?

My second topic are the brakes itself. Are there experiences to tune up the brakes?
I feel uncomfortable after using the brakes from higher speed.
There are “rumors” in the www, that AMG- cars have a better brake system. But what was changed? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Best Regards
Hendrik


1970 6.3
2012 C220CDI
1997 BMW320i