Originality Police

and a 600 with French rearlights :

Often,when desirable cars are first released the dealers with the most influence get the best deals ,so cars that were intended for sale somewhere can get redirected to a special customer .

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12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

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Well, sometimes there are errors on the datacards:

My ex-450 SE, 116032-12-0009xxx was ordered for the spanish gob fleet and armoured by Armalite Ltd (Uk).

On the datacard the colour is 903, but..... on the options tag on the radiator the colour was 904, and obviously the car was 904 dunkelblau all it's life!!!

Other suspect, ... my 450 SEL, 116033-12-090xxx, shows a dealer code for Austria, order 0 9 557 00103, but it was delivered to Armalite for armouring and has been all it's life in Spain..... so or it's an error, as spanish country code is 577 or ...it was delivered in Austria for some strange reason! Option codes are 205, 410, 511, 531, 656, 665.
205 is instruction booklet in english (instead of german).
Car has original air conditioning but it's not shown on the datacard.
Car has rear hearest, that are not shown on the datacard...

quote:

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Originally posted by james lawson

Mike,
How many pictures of these cars do you have?

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I searched a while to find those.

Mike,
How many pictures of these cars do you have?
As to previous: wouldn't such a reconstruction have a branded title?


jim

quote:

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Originally posted by paul-NL

and the frontlights in yellow, which is common known.

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Comme ca.





I wonder if French spec cars also had yellow instrument lights? [:D]

@ Michael,
good pic, it has the same fault .....
french specifications : those lights NOT clear but red/brownisch and the frontlights in yellow, which is common known.

@ Art,
I have no clou, but you will be right [:D] Thanks for that translation ..

Paul,
Dutch Jodium translates to Iodine, used as you say for surgical antisepsis.
Art

Like this?

@ Nick,

On the pics I have stored, I (thought to) discover(ed) a minor fault with your data-card.
The reverse drivinglihtglass at the left side has clear glass, which should be brownisch like the right side, while french specifications.

You could recolour the clear glass very simple.
Dip the innerside of the clear glass with some liquid JODIUM (which is used for desinfecting wounds)
( neem een eenvoudig watten-staafje [:D] ) Don't know how to translate this in englisch ...... [:o)]

Great topic guys.

Philosophies on this site have very much changed my views on things in the world, and I thank you all!!

If MY 6.3 had never received "slightly reduced originality" (ie - converted to LPG, and MFI + fuel tank removed entirely) plus body rust, etc, it would NEVER have been in my price range, and I wouldn't have entered the M100 world, and it would have been parted/crushed without doubt.




If I can get it to run (as close as possible) to right on LPG, I don't think it will be devalued as a complete, intact vehicle...

All of that aside, it needs paint, and I dislike the original white.
I will go with a different color....but I WON'T change the tag on the radiator support, and whatever the new color, it must go well with the original maroon interior.

The interior is very good, and all original except a modern Radio.
All electrics etc seem to work.

It will still be a factory car that conveys an era where a manufacturer built a car that came with 'the best stuff they could think of' - BIG V8, Airbag suspension, beautiful chrome, leather & wood, astounding overall sportiness superbly balanced with full saloon comfort and class.

Other non-originalities will be my 16 x 7 Ronal R9s (Penta like) and polished intake/valve covers + Pertronix.

Will it still be a 6.3???
Will it still embody the original spirit???
Will it still dumbfound the general public that Car Makers used to build stuff this good?
Will it still gobsmack the average 'car bloke' and send them into rabid research trying to fathom what they have just seen???

As a car tinkerer, I'm always looking for 'upgrades'.
I do, however, agree that virtually NOBODY has improved a 6.3.
It's original intention as a comfortably elegant hot rod was so well achieved that boosting the comfort hurts the sportiness, and vice versa.

Any change which doesn't lesson the 6.3-ness of it, when applied to a car that has long since been a candidate for an accurate restoration, is keeping the brand alive, and on the road....

300 SEL 6.3 # 2462
Elegant Brutality

Personally, I simply wanted to 'confirm' the original specs of my car (make sure that body / seat colors were original, etc.).
In general, it might help to limit the activity of the 'cowboys' - maybe ALL MB admirers should make sure that the car they want to buy is accompanied by the respective data-card.


Nick P.

1969 MB 300 SEL 6.3 (109.018-12003481)
1990 MB 190 1.8
1991 Jaguar XJS 5.3 conv.

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Originally posted by james lawson

Is it wrong or misleading to graft the number from the inner fender, etc. to the sound car and transfer the interior etc. to it?

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Not just wrong, it's completely illegal.

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Originally posted by james lawson

So, one had a car with a bunch of very unusual options and pristine interior, and the running gear was fine, but every single piece of sheet metal and each of the rockers were rusted to the point that it had to be replaced, and even the frame rails were bad. You also have another example of the same model which is sound with matching original paint that is correct. Is it wrong or misleading to graft the number from the inner fender, etc. to the sound car and transfer the interior etc. to it? Is it right to move all the pieces to the interior etc? Really, you have the same result except one solution costs more and a probability that the rebuilt car won't behave as it should. Each car is restored.

jim

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James,
then you "CREATE" an other car "DATACARD-LIKE".
In europe it is not alowed to do so, but many thiefs do the same ...
Let me call it "LOOK a LIKE" or "DUPLO"

How would you FEEL / react, when you have bought such a car and discover after an year that the car was "renumbered" ???

It can be interesting to the extent that some go to preserve originality. I had someone phone me this week enquiring about his mercedes 230SL . He had been driving along when the oil pressure dropped off. Instead of stopping and checking the dip stick,he tried to reach home. A rod end seized and the rod was thrown out the bottom,smashing the block. The owner wants me to repair the block because it is the original.....

quote:

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12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

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So, one had a car with a bunch of very unusual options and pristine interior, and the running gear was fine, but every single piece of sheet metal and each of the rockers were rusted to the point that it had to be replaced, and even the frame rails were bad. You also have another example of the same model which is sound with matching original paint that is correct. Is it wrong or misleading to graft the number from the inner fender, etc. to the sound car and transfer the interior etc. to it? Is it right to move all the pieces to the interior etc? Really, you have the same result except one solution costs more and a probability that the rebuilt car won't behave as it should. Each car is restored.

jim

Paul:

Here's an example of how important obtaining the datacard and (hopefully) any change orders made after the order was placed.

One disappointment I had after buying my 600 was that the rear of the driver/passenger seat didn't have the correct black lace map pockets - I assumed that someone had recovered the seats long ago, incorrectly. I started the process of procuring new leather from Germany, etc.

Then, I ordered my datacard which came with a 2 page change order (that Mercedes forgot to black out the original owner's name). The change order showed the owner requested "Pompadour-Taschen Fahrerlehen (leder)", which translates to leather map pockets.

I almost made a big mistake by not checking the original ordering data.






Gerrett Conover,
M-100 Membership Sec'y
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1971 600 SWB
1979 450SEL 6.9
1981 250 LWB
1995 Impala SS
2000 S500
[img=left]http://www.600swb.com/Images/600_sm.jpg[/img=left]

Hi Folks,

About wear-items I agree full, Art.
Also about comfort adding upgrades as Michael states, while they are always to "undo" if wanted.

What me worries is, that there is an red W100 with black leather and black wheelcovers on the market at the moment.
If somebody buys this car and later discovers by translating the datacard, that the original paint was 180 G = silvergrey metallic with greenisch teint, how does the buyer feel then ????

Even the seller seems not to know where to look for this item .... and is thinking that red colour is original.
And repainting to original is not done in an eye-blinck ....

But I admit, that some of these items is also a matter of "personal taste" ..... so it will keep our mind bussy .....

One subject no one has mentioned, but is quite popular these days is fitting original factory options to a car that didn't originally come with them. For example, many 6.3s didn't come with an offside rear view mirror, but they were available as an option. Ditto for things like rear seat headrests, rear reading lights etc. What about fitting a white steering wheel to car that came with a black one? Is it kosher to dump the dim-bulb sealed beam headlights on a US 6.3, and install the similar looking but far superior Euro H1 lamps? Or putting in the factory inertial reel seat belts that came on later W114s? Is it okay to put even 14 inch bundts on a car that didn't come with them? Even if you accept the concept of putting bundts on, what about on a car built before November 1970 when they were first offered as an option? What about a Becker radio that "looks right," but wasn't strictly the exact version sold at the time. You can date a Becker Mexico Cassette Vollstereo by which arrows are used on the fast forward and rewind buttons, but how many people worry about that?

These are all modifications from original, but to me they generally enhance the car.

Becker Mexico Cassette Vollstereo version 1

http://www.market.scout24.ch/Attachments/Images/002/990/012/004101904-2.jpg

Version 2

http://www.autoradio-oldtimer.de/images/b_mexvsc.jpg

Version 3

http://www.sternzeit-107.de/gallery/Beckerradios/Mexico%20Cassette%201.jpg

What about this? An autoreverse Mexico cassette. Wasn't available until 1980, but still sort of "looks right."

Originality is always important. That is why low mileage unmolested cars attract premium prices. If someone wants to buy a Mercedes-Benz 300SEL 6.3 for whatever reason , then he wants to buy just that. If he then decides to modify the car for his own tastes, then he must expect to lose money.

There are many things in car that are wear items and many that are designated by the manufacturer to be replaced at certain mileages. It becomes a total nonsense to expect a car to have its original battery and tyres, brake pads etc. My 600 had its original spare in the boot. I took it out and kept it for years till I finally decided that it was taking up room. It was useless as a spare. At some Concours, you lose points for such items, so there is a market for "reproduction" items. There is no end to this type of argument or discussion and it ends up really being the difference between having a car that you can drive and a car that you just look at.

Sometimes you have no choice but to replace the motor if you want to keep driving the car. That was the case for my 300SE coupe. The block had been butchered beyond repair. Is the car worth less because it has a different motor? I guess so, but the other alternative was to take the whole thing to the dump, which was where it was going if I hadn't bought it for not too much money. It is a bit illogical to penalize a car because the block has been changed, yet think nothing of whether the head/s has/have been changed, and there is no way of knowing about the latter. That is totally different from putting in a Chev motor.
Art